17 comments

  • imrehg 9 hours ago
    I've relatively recently migrated over to using btop[0], and it's the kind of modern interface, useful and informative, that I needed.

    As others mention it - it seems to shows the Watts used as well :) (and network, and GPU, and disks,....)

    [0]: https://github.com/aristocratos/btop

    • internet101010 17 minutes ago
      Long time user of btop. Only thing it is missing is a ports column next to the others. Also I think the cpu/gpu graph graph is way oversized and would like more space occupied by the open file table in general.
    • bilegeek 2 hours ago
      I like btop, but there are downsides:

      1.) No zram/zswap statistics. (Though htop only supports zram also.)

      2.) No ZFS statistics breakdown.

      3.) Doesn't support Arc GPU yet.

      4.) I can't disable the disk fill bars, which makes the I/O rate graphs extremely squished unless the console window is very large.

    • hinkley 2 hours ago
      I still occasionally use alpine as a base image for containers and it looks like both doesn’t do musl so that’s out.
    • MomsAVoxell 8 hours ago
      Yup, btop zealot here, it even replaced iStatMenu on my brand new MacBook ..
      • NetOpWibby 7 hours ago
        Oh wow, now I gotta check it out.
    • zackify 5 hours ago
      Same. Btop is the best
  • cogman10 9 hours ago
    2 Settings I change on every htop which makes a HUGE difference.

    1. I disable user threads. Those mostly just clutter up the htop view while providing no useful information.

    2. I enable the process tree view. Very frequently, where a process comes from is much more important than other information. It also lets you see and track things like a compiler process which is eating through a bunch of files.

    IMO, both these things should be the default behavior of htop.

    • zekrioca 8 hours ago
      I like the process tree view, but it stops the dynamic updates and reordering of process list.
  • AnotherGoodName 7 hours ago
    I appreciate the note on virtual memory not being reliable. This is what Windows task manager reports by default and it's terrible. Resident size is the most reliable metric. Anything else can be wrongfully inflated by things like harmless memory mapped files that won't actually hurt anything. eg. memory map 2GB of logfiles, it'll only be paged in if reading that portion of the logfile so isn't really using memory but users look at the processes and claim "OMG why does this app use so much memory". It doesn't. It uses very little. You're reading the memory usage wrong. Chrome actually had this problem for a while and they moved away from using memory mapped files. Not because memory mapped files are a bad thing but because users will read the memory usage and go crazy over what they see even though it's not really using that much actual physical memory.

    There's actually guides out there on the web that tell people judge usage by virtual memory allocated too :(. At least this article gets it right :).

    • d3Xt3r 3 hours ago
      > Resident size is the most reliable metric

      Actually, Proportional Set Size is more accurate than RSS. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_set_size

      • cb321 3 hours ago
        `procs display` (mentioned elsethread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48788167 ) supports PSS via its %M format code.

        One issue with that relative to RSS is permissions. Historically, all procs could see the RSS used by procs of all other users (at least if they could see the PIDs at all). So, RSS requires no special permissions, but the Linux kernel team decided PSS should not be as promiscuous for whatever reasons (I didn't do a deep dive). So, I'm always having to do (the equivalent of) `sudo pu`.

    • jltsiren 6 hours ago
      If you use memory-mapped files, cached pages count towards the resident set size of your process. If you use ordinary file I/O, they don't. That behavior has amusing consequences in HPC clusters that monitor the memory usage of each job and kill them if they use more memory than they requested.
    • hinkley 2 hours ago
      Resident set size is not the amount of memory that the process wants, it’s how much the OS is willing to give it. So once memory pressure kicks in it stops being representative. I’ve seen this misunderstanding lead to bad decisions a few times. I even went so far to remove this value form charts because a team member was going left when he should have gone right.
    • sedatk 4 hours ago
      > This is what Windows task manager reports

      Just to clarify, Windows Task Manager uses Private Working Set by default for process memory usage which does NOT include shared pages with other processes such as libraries or memory mapped files (hence the name “private”). It only shows the memory that maps to privately allocated physical memory per process. It’s probably closer to Resident Set on Unix.

      You probably meant the memory usage in performance tab but I wanted to clarify in case people mistake it for all memory usage fields.

  • thijson 9 hours ago
    For top if you use the > character it will sort by memory usage. I use that sometimes to figure out why my host is becoming laggy. Also you'll see swapd is taking up CPU.
    • yomismoaqui 7 hours ago
      I prefer using the more memory friendly M (uppercase) for memory and P (uppercase) for CPU
  • WD-42 7 hours ago
    When I read stuff like this, I come to the realization that even after daily driving Linux for 20+ years I still barely utilize its full potential. Great article.
  • fractorial 9 hours ago
    Anyone else feel as if HN is healing? I hope this isn't the walking-ghost era of HN.
    • wonnage 44 minutes ago
      Healing by reverting to seven year old pre-slop articles :)
    • conqrr 9 hours ago
      3 AI related articles on the front page, but one is busting slop. I'm hopeful.
  • zepearl 6 hours ago
    For the ones that don't know "nmon", have a look at it as well! (press "h" to see the list of available monitors - press it again to make it go away, press "q" to quit)

    https://nmon.sourceforge.io/pmwiki.php

    Especially disk throughput and I/O (keys "d" & "D") can be very useful.

    • shellwizard 42 minutes ago
      I know it from some AIX machines that we have at job, also topas comes to mind
    • Zardoz84 4 hours ago
      very useful tool. I install it on every machine where I have control. I appreciate the "Wide" CPU usage graph, that can handle huge core counts easily
  • cb321 4 hours ago
    A different usage paradigm from *top that I have come to like better is to do differential ps-like reports and system-wide (like vmstat) reports which leaves everything in your terminal scrollback buffer as in: https://github.com/c-blake/procs { written in the uncommonly efficient, expressive Nim programming language }.
  • wyclif 9 hours ago
    I've had this bookmarked since 2016, and have referred to it many times over the years.
  • TheChaplain 9 hours ago
    This is really good!

    I use htop often but pretty much only use it to find pid or cpu-culprits, and never really understood the rest.

    • bwnkl 9 hours ago
      For pid I find pgrep to be the better suited tool
  • love0972 7 hours ago
    Very interesting topic,Cool.
  • MomsAVoxell 8 hours ago
    s/htop/btop/

    You'll be glad you did.

    • allarm 4 hours ago
      What's so good about btop? I personally can't stand its interface, I don't need bells and whistles in my terminal.
  • myshapeprotocol 9 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • amelius 9 hours ago
    A bit silly that you can see a load average but not the amount of Watts used by your system.
  • amelius 9 hours ago
    Nowadays most of my processing happens on the GPU, so htop/top better evolve or become mostly irrelevant because a tool that will support both CPU __and__ GPU will replace it.
    • shellwizard 39 minutes ago
      There's intel_gpu_top for Intel iGPUs, although it's very limited and not a great UX
    • FpUser 9 hours ago
      Irrelevant for you does not mean irrelevant for others
      • amelius 8 hours ago
        Nails and hammers are great but most of us have moved on to screws and screwdrivers.

        What good does it do to stick your head in the sand?

        CPUs are great for orchestrating work, GPUs are great for actually doing the work.

        • goodmythical 7 hours ago
          >CPUs are great for orchestrating work

          Right, and wouldn't it be really nice if we could check on our orchestrators to make sure their not bottlenecking ops?

          "How come we can fully load the GPUs?" "Idk boss, amelius said htop et al were irrelevant so we can't really investigate"

          • amelius 23 minutes ago
            "Use gtop, a tool that shows both cpu and gpu load, and more. I am your boss, you should know this stuff, not me".
        • JdeBP 5 hours ago
          Screws have been around for about 3 millennia at this point. They have patently failed to obviate the use of nails. So by this analogy we can expect the 'Only GPUs do the work.' believers to be still promising this, any day now, about three thousand years hence. (-:
          • amelius 2 hours ago
            Software is getting more complicated and a lot of it depends on both cpu and gpu.

            If you have a systems tool that gives an overview of resources used, then better monitor them both.

            Imho failing to do so is not future-proof. Your opinion might differ.

        • WD-42 7 hours ago
          Did you write this comment using your gpu?
          • FpUser 32 minutes ago
            Actually modern rendering might involve GPU
        • FpUser 8 hours ago
          >"What good does it do to stick your head in the sand?"

          Get the fuck out. I do write for GPU as well. One does not replace the other.

          • justthetop 8 hours ago
            For high performance work, gpus have replaced cpus a long time ago.
            • kergonath 4 hours ago
              There is plenty of "high performance work" that still requires CPUs.
            • goodmythical 7 hours ago
              Not for all definitions of HPC, though.

              No one's doing database management on GPUs. No one's scraping data on GPUs. Can't run VMs on GPUs. Can't run web servers on GPU...

              • FpUser 4 hours ago
                It is sunny in my backyard now. Must be sunny everywhere else
    • zekrioca 8 hours ago
      Stupidest comment ever.
    • sevg 7 hours ago
      > Nowadays most of my processing happens on the GPU, so htop/top better evolve or become mostly irrelevant

      If you’re a 3D rendering designer, an ML engineer or a crypto bro, then sure.

      Here are the common workloads (for the average SWE on HN) that use CPU/RAM:

        - compilation/builds
        - language servers and IDEs
        - test suites
        - local containers
        - local databases
        - node tooling
        - browsers
        - data processing
        - compression and encryption
        - searching/indexing
      
      Ok sure, top/htop is totally irrelevant now /s
      • lukan 4 hours ago
        And your browser for instance might crash, if it runs out of gpu memory, which will surprise you if you only look for cpu/ram.

        (Happened to me)