5 comments

  • hasudon7171 1 minute ago
    I think this results vary depending on whether or not a person exercises regularly. After just six months of training, older adults who do not exercise regularly may see significant changes, but those who exercise regularly are likely to see only minor changes.
  • xtiansimon 50 minutes ago
    > “High-intensity training reduced fat and maintained lean mass […] though changes were small and not clinically meaningful compared with exercise of lower intensity…”

    High intensity does border on leading to injury — just making the wrong move — and you’re back to zero intensity?

    • mzhaase 22 minutes ago
      This is specifically cardio. High intensity interval training can be safe, for example, air bike, battle ropes, etc. High intensity running does have higher injury risk.
      • SecretDreams 12 minutes ago
        Everyone just needs to play soccer and avoid the 50/50s if you're an adult that wants to be pain free the next day.

        I love me some adult coed soccer. And it can be very high intensity intermittently if you feel like it.

        • agsnu 10 minutes ago
          The study is about 70 year olds. I’m not sure it’s a good idea for the average 70 year old to be engaging in contact sports…
          • philk10 7 minutes ago
            they play walking soccer
        • philk10 7 minutes ago
          I avoided - or that was my intention until the game started - the 50/50s but my calf and hamstring still felt the pain the next day Totally worth it though
        • m3kw9 6 minutes ago
          Hurting the ego will likely make you not play the next game
    • baxtr 46 minutes ago
      Really depends on how you define high-intensity.

      To build muscle, you need to push yourself to a limit. You can reduce the weight and increase the repetitions. This approach is just as effective and lowers the risk of injury.

      • criddell 5 minutes ago
        Maybe with older adults the baseline goal should be to merely maintain the muscle, mobility, and cardiovascular capacity they already have? It's not realistic for a 50 year old to think they could build muscle year-after-year for the next 30 years.
      • kakacik 26 minutes ago
        This is what I do. When I was beginning with weight training, I followed other's recommendations back then and pushed hard. Had quite often minor issues or injuries in the joints which set me back for weeks or even months, my tendons seem to be my weak spot and it does get worse with age, both limits and recovery.

        Lowered the load, increased repetitions and basically nothing for a decade. I can still go almost to the failure, I don't even want to reach it since I don't care about that extra bit. Squats or deadlifts are hard even when not at limits, one feels used body parts for a day or two.

        I still add cardio on top of that, its just basic logic of moving around a lot is very good for the body, even if effects are not immediately obvious.

        • lowdude 23 minutes ago
          So, how many reps did you start with and how many do you do nowadays?
    • ryandvm 43 minutes ago
      No joke. I go to the gym a couple times a week so that I'll maintain mobility and won't injure myself as I age - unfortunately 80% of my injuries come from the gym.
      • pjsmith404 40 minutes ago
        If most of your injuries come from the gym, I recommend you get a trainer.
        • mlinhares 26 minutes ago
          hahah, so true. Also, there are multiple ways to do high intensity exercising that are very unlikely to injure you, like stationary bikes. High intensity only means going to a very high heart rate, you can do this in any way you like it.
      • toasty228 10 minutes ago
        Lift less weight then, there is no reason to get injured in the gym if you have a normal body, proper form and lift reasonable weight. From an health point of view it's better to squat/deadlift a mere 60kg safely than trying to go for 200kg+ and snap a disk for absolutely no reason. 100% of my injuries are gym related, because I threw my back exactly once, and since then I lift reasonable weights and focus on proper execution/form

        Some people believe "high intensity" means lifting as much as possible as fast as possible, I'd say more reps and deliberately slow movements are as intense for the purpose of staying in shape/healthy.

        Most body weight exercises are virtually impossible to fuck up to the point of injury, done properly they'll keep you fitter than 99% of the population

      • mrweasel 36 minutes ago
        80% of my injuries occurred while sleeping, which seems very weird.
        • busymom0 23 minutes ago
          I knew someone who dislocated her shoulder often while sleeping. If I remember right, she's dislocated it 17 times or some ridiculous number.
          • LoganDark 13 minutes ago
            Isn't it easier for it to happen again once it's happened at least once?
    • netbioserror 20 minutes ago
      Calisthenics is a really easy way to push intensity at basically 0 risk of injury. They're all compound and depending on the variation could require high reps, but between push ups, pull-ups, squats, their numerous variations, and accessory work, I would challenge anyone to actually injure themselves while also being able to push to true technical failure.
      • torben-friis 9 minutes ago
        It is very possible to injure yourself with calisthenics. Shoulder impingement or tendinitis from pullups with too much intensity/bad form for example. Weight is weight.
    • nathan_compton 27 minutes ago
      There are plenty of high intensity activities with low risk of injury. Rowing and swimming come to mind.

      I think the bigger problem is that, as far as I can tell, very few people have the appropriate personality type for high intensity exercise. Most people seem to experience it just as pointless discomfort.

    • busymom0 20 minutes ago
      In my experience, there's a middle ground. Don't go for 1 to 3 rep maxes. Go for 4-6 rep maxes for a set and then follow it by set to failure in the 8-12 rep range. That gives a good mix of both intensity and volume while still reducing risks of injury as the weights are heavy but not crazy heavy to compromise form.
  • sghiassy 12 minutes ago
    “though changes were small and not clinically meaningful compared with exercise of lower intensity and considering measurement error”
    • m3kw9 5 minutes ago
      So the the research is inconclusive?
  • myst 1 hour ago
    I’m genuinely confused. Was there any doubt before this study that sport makes people healthier?
    • dgacmu 58 minutes ago
      No, but past recommendations for older adults (note that the average age in the study was 72 years old) were towards "gentle" or moderate exercise. We're seeing a shift now towards recommending real weight lifting and higher intensity as we age. ("Real" -> closer to powerlifting in terms of goals and methods)
      • faangguyindia 54 minutes ago
        why is it powerlifting?

        general prescription these days for Hypertrophy is 10 sets per muscle group per week 0-3 RIR.

        • dgacmu 4 minutes ago
          Mostly because functional strength is useful and keeps you alive. major goals as you age are avoiding falls and being able to continue doing things for yourself. Strength fits that bill pretty well (and it also improves fat free mass).

          And on a slightly more technical note, recovering from higher volume becomes harder as you age, so focusing on a smaller number (5ish) of reps at higher weight gives you adaptation without quite as much stress.

          But I should be clear, when I said real lifting, I don't mean to exclude any form of well calibrated progressive overload, whether that's strength focused or hypertrophy focused. I do mean to exclude the "go to the gym and lift a 10 lb weight the same number of reps each time" BS

        • rokob 49 minutes ago
          Because hypertrophy is generally pointless compared to strength. The hyperthrophy that naturally accompanies strength work is sufficient but the strength that accompanies hypertrophy work is far less beneficial.
          • faangguyindia 22 minutes ago
            one of the best proxy we've for Hypertrophy is getting progressively stronger in medium rep range. (8-12)

            The title says they are focused on improving body composition which is boosting lean mass, lowering of fat mass which kinda seems achieved best by focusing on Hypertrophy and fat loss?

        • ehnto 34 minutes ago
          Hypertrophy and strength aren't as strongly linked as we thought. Generally for wellness, injury prevention, you want strength and flexibility.
    • mDyJzDPmBdG 44 minutes ago
      There was plenty of obvious, common sense assumptions that didn't hold at all when methodically tested, like sugar rush in children. And this specific type of studies tries to find a sweet spot between benefits and effort taken. Some results were unexpected, If I recall correctly on found that having to take three flights of stairs daily outperformed many exercise regimes designed for elderly.
    • ehnto 35 minutes ago
      I have met people who figured, because they don't excercise they don't wear their body out, so their joints etc. will last longer. Same for injury, no sport no injury, that must be good!
      • lukan 25 minutes ago
        In a way this is right with high intense/extreme sport. (I did Thai Boxing in my youth, but stopped at some point)

        But it is very wrong otherwise, joints for example will suffer if not moved. Blood will only flow into all the areas of the joints if they are moved. And if you don't move, your muscles will be gone and without muscles to hold your joints, loss of stability, great risk of injury, etc.

        • busymom0 18 minutes ago
          And don't forget benefits of weight training in improving bone density and preventing osteoporosis as we age.
          • lukan 5 minutes ago
            And strengthening the nerves and all the other body parts that degrade with being idle.
      • arnejenssen 21 minutes ago
        Charlie Munger thought of exercise as adding mileage to the car.
    • atwrk 58 minutes ago
      Well I guess reading the article could ease your confusion. Unsurprisingly it is a bit less generalized than your take.
    • nayroclade 1 hour ago
      That wasn't what this study was investigating.
    • ButlerianJihad 29 minutes ago
      Sports and exercise are definitely beneficial, but any sort of activity presents a risk of injury.

      If people work out, or play sports, without knowing proper form, without using protection or precautions, they'll get injured and then worse off than before. Realistically, manual laborers should be in real good shape, but often their jobs are so low-wage, and they're so interchangeable, that safety precautions are ignored and must be regulated/enforced.

      I took up roller skating and was rewarded with a broken leg. I took up gym exercise and was repaid with a hernia. Both required surgery. No regrets! Only wished I could've better understood how to exercise safely!

      I once encountered a FB group that was for people to discuss "sports injuries sustained while we were in bed" and I could totally relate, having done weird stuff to my shoulder overnight, rather than pitching a baseball game...

  • polarbearballs 40 minutes ago
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