35 comments

  • m-hodges 50 minutes ago
    To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd:

    Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules.

    I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries.

    So either “recombining existing material” isn’t disqualifying, or a lot of Fields Medals need to be returned.

    • dvt 43 minutes ago
      > I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries.

      Most discoveries are indeed implied from axioms, but every now and then, new mathematics is (for lack of a better word) "created"—and you have people like Descartes, Newton, Leibnitz, Gauss, Euler, Ramanujan, Galois, etc. that treat math more like an art than a science.

      For example, many belive that to sovle the Riemann Hypothesis, we likely need some new kind of math. Imo, it's unlikely that an LLM will somehow invent it.

      • Tenobrus 28 minutes ago
        what basis do you have for assuming an LLM is fundamentally incapable of doing this?
        • truncate 16 minutes ago
          What's your basis for assuming LLM is capable of doing this?

          I honestly don't know personally either way. Based on my limited understanding of how LLMs work, I don't see them be making the next great song or next great book and based on that reasoning I'm betting that it probably wont be able to do whatever next "Descartes, Newton, Leibnitz, Gauss, Euler, Ramanujan, Galois" are going to do.

          Of course AI as a wider field comes up with something more powerful than LLM that would be different.

        • blueone 13 minutes ago
          > what basis do you have for assuming an LLM is fundamentally incapable of doing this?

          because I have no basis for assuming an LLM is fundamentally capable of doing this.

        • voooduuuuu 15 minutes ago
          Ask an LLM to invent a new word and post it here. You will see that it simply combines words already in the training data.
        • dvt 25 minutes ago
          Because by definition LLMs are permutation machines, not creativity machines. (My premise, which you may disagree with, is that creativity/imagination/artistry is not merely permutation.)
          • lajamerr 13 minutes ago
            LLMs by themselves are not able to but you are missing a piece here.

            LLMs are prompted by humans and the right query may make it think/behave in a way to create a novel solution.

            Then there's a third factor now with Agentic AI system loops with LLMs. Where it can research, try, experiment in its own loop that's tied to the real world for feedback.

            Agentic + LLM + Initial Human Prompter by definition can have it experiment outside of its domain of expertise.

            So that's extending the "LLM can't create novel ideas" but I don't think anyone can disagree the three elements above are enough ingredients for an AI to come up with novel ideas.

          • lukol 11 minutes ago
            This "new math" might be a recombination of things that we already know - or an obvious pattern that emerges if you take a look at things from a far enough distance - or something that can be brute-forced into existence. All things LLMs are perfectly capable of.

            In the end, creativity has always been a combination of chance and the application of known patterns in new contexts.

            • dvt 7 minutes ago
              > This "new math" might be a recombination of things that we already know

              If you know anything about the invention of new math (analytic geometry, Calculus, etc.), you'd know how untrue this is. In fact, Calculus was extremely hand-wavy and without rigorous underpinnings until the mid 1800s. Again: more art than science.

          • fnordpiglet 14 minutes ago
            I prefer to think of it as they’re interpolation machines not extrapolation machines. They can project within the space they’re trained in, and what they produce may not be in their training corpus, but it must be implied by it. I don’t know if this is sufficient to make them too weak to create original “ideas” of this sort, but I think it is sufficient to make them incapable of original thought vs a very complex to evaluate expected thought.
          • nh23423fefe 21 minutes ago
            god of the gaps
          • KoolKat23 22 minutes ago
            It pretty much is, otherwise it is randomness or entropy.
    • nomel 2 minutes ago
      I feel this is the case whenever I "problem solve". I'm not really being creative, I'm pruning a graph of a conceptual space that already exists. The more possibilities I see, the easier it is to run more towards an optimal route between the nodes, but I didn't "create" those nodes or edges, they are just causal inevitabilities.
    • sillysaurusx 2 minutes ago
      It’s easy to see that LLMs don’t merely recombine their training data. Claude can program in Arc, a mostly dead language. It can also make use of new language constructs. So either all programming language constructs are merely remixes of existing ideas, or LLMs are capable of working in domains where no training data exists.
    • throw-the-towel 43 minutes ago
      See the longstanding debate on whether new math is "invented" or "discovered". Most mathematicians I knew thought it's discovered.
      • skybrian 31 minutes ago
        Any design already exists as a possibility, so it could be said to be both invented and discovered, depending on how you look at it.
        • FrustratedMonky 1 minute ago
          Depending on your point of view? I see what you did there.

          Who knew Obi-one was just smoking and pontificating on Wittgenstein.

        • cubefox 26 minutes ago
          All inventions are discoveries, though not all discoveries are inventions.
      • protoplancton 9 minutes ago
        One can argue that mathematical facts are discovered, but the tools that allow us to find, express them and prove them, are mostly invented. This goes up to the axioms, that we can deliberately choose and craft.
      • soupspaces 28 minutes ago
        Regardless of which, both Newton and Leibniz imprint in their findings a 'voice' and understanding different from each other and that of an LLM (for now?)
      • atmosx 34 minutes ago
        ...long standing indeed. It can be traced back to Plato's works.
    • adam_arthur 10 minutes ago
      Pretty much everything that appears novel in life is derivative of other works or concepts.

      You can watch a rock roll down a hill and derive the concept for the wheel.

      Seems pretty self evident to me

    • paulddraper 9 minutes ago
      "LLMs just interpolate their training data"

      Cracks me up.

      What exactly do we think that human brains do?

    • voooduuuuu 27 minutes ago
      I think you are conflating composition and prediction. LLMs don't compose higher abstractions from the "axioms, symbols and rules", they simply predict the next token, like a really large spinning wheel.
      • peterlk 20 minutes ago
        Yes they do…? Who cares if they just predict the next token? The outcome is that they can invent new abstractions. You could claim that the invention of this new idea is a combination of an LLM and a harness, but that combination can solve logic puzzles and invent abstractions. If a really large spinning wheel could invent proofs that were previously unsolved, that would be a wildly amazing spinning wheel. I view LLMs similarly. It is just fancy autocomplete, but look what we can do with it!

        Said differently, what is prediction but composition projected forward through time/ideas?

        • voooduuuuu 18 minutes ago
          Ask an LLM to invent a new word and post it here, I will be waiting. You will see that it simply combines words already in the training data.
          • romanhn 2 minutes ago
            I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is. My prompt to ChatGPT: "Create a new English word with a reasonably sounding definition. That word must not come up in a Google search." Two attempts did come up in a search, the third was "Thaleniq (noun)". Definition: The brief feeling that a conversation has permanently changed your opinion of someone, even if nothing dramatic was said. Nothing in Google. There, a new word, not sure it proves or disproves anything. Or is it time to move the goal posts?
          • jimmaswell 4 minutes ago
            Why is everyone who responds to this with a real example immediately flagged/dead?
            • sillysaurusx 1 minute ago
              HN autokills LLM generated comments. People don’t seem to believe this, but there’s proof for you.
          • bossyTeacher 13 minutes ago
            Does a random sequence of letters qualify as a new word?
          • planetafro 5 minutes ago
            [dead]
          • motoxpro 7 minutes ago
            [flagged]
      • motoxpro 15 minutes ago
        It's even more interesting if they just "predict the next token" because that would mean that all knowledge is obvious, even if no human knows it yet, because it has to be if the predictor is just writing an average of all possible words.

        This means that those compositions are also obvious because they will be predicted by just outputing the next word.

      • sunshowers 17 minutes ago
        One might argue that the composition of higher abstractions is the next token predicted after "here is a higher abstraction:"
      • frozenseven 8 minutes ago
        Show me on the anatomical prop where the "real reasoning" gland is.
      • adampunk 24 minutes ago
        How sure are you that this is correct?
  • lubujackson 43 minutes ago
    For anyone using LLMs heavily for coding, this shouldn't be too surprising. It was just a matter of time.

    Mathematicians make new discoveries by building and applying mathematical tools in new ways. It is tons of iterative work, following hunches and exploring connections. While true that LLMs can't truly "make discoveries" since they have no sense of what that would mean, they can Monte Carlo every mathematical tool at a narrow objective and see what sticks, then build on that or combine improvements.

    Reading the article, that seems exactly how the discovery was made, an LLM used a "surprising connection" to go beyond the expected result. But the result has no meaning without the human intent behind the objective, human understanding to value the new pathway the AI used (more valuable than the result itself, by far) and the mathematical language (built by humans) to explore the concept.

  • vatsachak 1 hour ago
    As I have stated before, AI will win a fields medal before it can manage a McDonald's

    A difficult part was constructing a chess board on which to play math (Lean). Now it's just pattern recognition and computation.

    LLMs are just the beginning, we'll see more specialized math AI resembling StockFish soon.

    • trostaft 22 minutes ago
      > A difficult part was constructing a chess board on which to play math (Lean). Now it's just pattern recognition and computation.

      However, this was not verified in Lean. This was purely plain language in and out. I think, in many ways, this is a quite exciting demonstration of exactly the opposite of the point you're making. Verification comes in when you want to offload checking proofs to computers as well. As it stands, this proof was hand-verified by a group of mathematicians in the field.

    • Lerc 46 minutes ago
      I disagree. It will be able to perform work deserving if a fields medal before it is capable of running a McDonalds. I think it will be running a McDonalds well before either of those things happen, and a fields medal long after both have happened.
      • c7b 8 minutes ago
        One could hardly ask for a task better suited for LLMs than producing math in Lean. Running a restaurant is so much fuzzier, from the definition of what it even means to the relation of inputs to outputs and evaluating success.
      • edbaskerville 31 minutes ago
        I just visited a McDonald's for the first time in a while. The self-order kiosk UI is quite bad. I think this is evidence in favor of the idea that an incompetent AI will soon be incompetently running a McDonald's.
        • Silamoth 11 minutes ago
          Out of curiosity, what issue did you have with the McDonald’s self-order kiosk? I actually think McDonald’s has the best kiosk I’ve ever encountered. The little animation that plays when you add an item to your cart is a little annoying (but I think they’ve sped that up). But otherwise, it’s everything I’d want. It shows you all the items, tells you every ingredient, and lets you add or remove ingredients. I have a better experience ordering through the kiosk than I do talking to a cashier.
        • koolala 12 minutes ago
          Sign in and let our McLLM customize your ordering UI to completly match your taste. I'd ask it to organize by cost per calories.
    • evenhash 35 minutes ago
      The proof is not written in Lean, though. It’s written in English and requires validation by human experts to confirm that it’s not gibberish.
    • Terr_ 41 minutes ago
      > manage a McDonald's

      Dystopia vibes from the fictional "Manna" people-management system. [0]

      [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna_(novel)

      • kmeisthax 9 minutes ago
        Casual reminder that the author's proposed solution to the labor-automation dystopia is to invent a second identity-verification dystopia. Also casual reminder that the author wanted the death penalty to anyone over the age of 65.
    • sigmoid10 45 minutes ago
      Managing a McDonalds is a question of integration and modalities at this point. I don't think anyone still doubts that these models lack the reasoning capability or world knowledge needed for the job. So it's less of a fundamental technical problem and more of a process engineering issue.
      • throw-the-towel 44 minutes ago
        The capability they lack is being able to be sued.
        • pear01 37 minutes ago
          Police officers are human. In the United States in the vast majority of cases you can't sue the police, only the community responsible for them.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

          Assuming you can still sue McDonalds I am not sure if this is a problem in the robotic llm case. I'm also trying to imagine a case where you would want to sue the llm and not the company. Given robots/llm don't have free will I'm not sure the problem with qualified immunity making police unaccountable applies.

          There already exist a lot of similar conventions in corporate law. Generally, a main advantage of incorporation is protecting the people making the decisions from personal lawsuits.

          • nemomarx 17 minutes ago
            McDonald's are franchises - you generally want to sue the local owner or threaten them in addition to the holding company.

            That only requires someone own the ai managed McDonald's though. so long as they can't avoid responsibility by pointing to the AI I don't see why you couldn't sue them.

          • logicchains 6 minutes ago
            >Police officers are human. In the United States in the vast majority of cases you can't sue the police, only the community responsible for them.

            Police are a monopoly; nobody has a choice about which police company to use. McDonalds are not a monopoly, and many customers would prefer to eat at competitors run by entities that could be sued or jailed if they did anything particularly egregious.

    • segmondy 10 minutes ago
      our local AI models are already capable of running McDonalds.
    • whimsicalism 25 minutes ago
      the only thing keeping the mcdonalds from happening will be political, likewise the same with fields medal
    • forinti 44 minutes ago
      AI is already too old for that.
    • soupspaces 53 minutes ago
    • w29UiIm2Xz 39 minutes ago
      Enough body cameras and audio recordings of each job function should be enough the build the world model for operating a fast food franchise. Training on academic publications wouldn't yield the same effect.
  • mooreat 3 minutes ago
    I think one interesting thing to point out is that the proof (disproof) was done by finding a counterexample of Erdős' original conjecture.

    I agree with one of the mathematician's responses in the linked PDF that this is somewhat less interesting than proving the actual conjecture was true.

    In my eye's proving the conjecture true requires a bit more theory crafting. You have to explain why the conjecture is correct by grounding it in a larger theory while with the counterexample the model has to just perform a more advanced form of search to find the correct construction.

    Obviously this search is impressive not naive and requires many steps along the way to prove connections to the counterexample, but instead of developing new deep mathematics the model is still just connecting existing ideas.

    Not to discount this monumental achievement. I think we're really getting somewhere! To me, and this is just vibes based, I think the models aren't far from being able to theory craft in such a way that they could prove more complicated conjectures that require developing new mathematics. I think that's just a matter of having them able to work on longer and longer time horizons.

  • 0x5FC3 53 minutes ago
    Is there a reason why we only hear of Erdos problems being solved? I would imagine there are a myriad of other unsolved problems in math, but every single ChatGPT "breakthrough in math" I come across on r/singularity and r/accelerate are Erdos problems.
    • bananaflag 41 minutes ago
      Erdos problems are easier to state, thus they make a great benchmark for the first year of AI mathematics.
    • tonfa 51 minutes ago
      Afaik this is because there is a community and database around them.
      • 0x5FC3 48 minutes ago
        Interesting. OpenAI could also be trying to solve other problems, but Erdos problems maybe falling first?
        • CSMastermind 11 minutes ago
          No, Erdos problems were accepted as sort of a benchmark. There's a bunch of reasons they're favorable for this task:

          1. They have a wide range of difficulties. 2. They were curated (Erdos didn't know at first glance how to solve them). 3. Humans already took the time to organize, formally state, add metadata to them. 4. There's a lot of them.

          If you go around looking for a mathematics benchmark it's hard to do better than that.

    • throw-the-towel 45 minutes ago
      They're just famous because Erdos was a great mathematician, kinda like the Hilbert problems a century earlier.
    • famouswaffles 40 minutes ago
      It's not just Erdos problems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48213189
    • empath75 43 minutes ago
      It's a large set of problems that are both interesting and difficult, but not seen as foundational enough or important enough that they have already had sustained attention on them by mathematicians for decades or centuries, and so they might actually be solvable by an LLM.
      • 1qaboutecs 35 minutes ago
        Also fewer prerequisites to understand the statement than the average research problem.
  • zozbot234 50 minutes ago
    The summarized chain of thought for this task (linked in the blogpost) is 125 pages. That's an insane scale of reasoning, quite akin to what Anthropic has been teasing with Mythos.
  • aurareturn 1 hour ago
    One thing seems for certain is that OpenAI models hold a distinct lead in academics over Anthropic and Google models.

    For those in academics, is OpenAI the vendor of choice?

    • Jcampuzano2 49 minutes ago
      OpenAI specifically targeted Academia a lot and gave out a lot of free/unlimited usage to top academics and universities/researchers.

      They also offer grants you can apply for as a researcher. I'm sure other labs may have this too but I believe OpenAI was first to this.

    • tracerbulletx 48 minutes ago
      Hasn't AlphaFold been used to make real discoveries for a few years now?
    • bayindirh 52 minutes ago
      From my limited testing, Gemini can dig out hard to find information given you detail your prompt enough.

      Given that Google is the "web indexing company", finding hard to find things is natural for their models, and this is the only way I need these models for.

      If I can't find it for a week digging the internet, I give it a colossal prompt, and it digs out what I'm looking for.

    • logicchains 5 minutes ago
      OpenAI models seem to have been trained on a lot of auto-generated theorem proving data; GPT 5.5 is really good at writing Lean.
    • FloorEgg 1 hour ago
      Gemini seems better trained for learning and I think Google has made a more deliberate effort to optimize for pedagoical best practices. (E.g. tutoring, formative feedback, cognitive load optimization)

      As far as academic research is concerned (e.g. this threads topic), I can't say.

      • snaking0776 21 minutes ago
        Agreed I usually use Gemini for explaining concepts and ChatGPT for getting things done on research projects.
      • aurareturn 1 hour ago
        Yes, I meant academic research.
      • cute_boi 50 minutes ago
        Gemini is like someone with short-term memory loss; after the first response, it forgets everything. That being said, I have checked multiple model and gemini can sometime give accurate answer.
    • karmasimida 53 minutes ago
      I think the mathematicians on X are all using GPT 5.5 Pro
    • causal 59 minutes ago
      A simpler explanation is that more people are using ChatGPT
  • endymi0n 1 hour ago
    To paraphrase Gwynne Shotwell: “Not too bad for just a large Markov chain, eh?”
  • Fraterkes 51 minutes ago
    I guess if this stuff is going to make my employment more precarious, it’d be nice if it also makes some scientific breakthroughs. We’ll see
    • ausbah 46 minutes ago
      shame we won’t see any of these medical breakthroughs when we all lose our jobs and thus our healthcare
      • karmasimida 39 minutes ago
        There is a world that AI makes medical breakthroughs, but there is 0 guarantee it is going to be affordable
    • cubefox 14 minutes ago
      Breakthroughs in pure mathematics aren't scientific though. They say us nothing about the world, and they are not useful.
  • Jeff_Brown 1 hour ago
    Can anyone find (or draw) a picture of the construction?
    • gibspaulding 38 minutes ago
      This only a proof that a field with more connections is possible, not what it looks like.

      I’m very out of my depth, but the structure of the proof seems to follow a pattern similar to a proof by contradiction. Where you’d say for example “assume for the sake of contradiction that the previously known limit is the highest possible” then prove that if that statement is true you get some impossible result.

    • ninjha 44 minutes ago
      They only proved that one exists; computing the actual construction is non-obvious (the naive way to construct it is computationally infeasible).
    • pradn 1 hour ago
      They have a "before" picture but not an "after"!
  • throwaway2027 38 minutes ago
    Not to dismiss the AI but the important part is that you still need someone able to recognize these solutions in the first place. A lot of things were just hidden in plain sight before AI but no one noticed or didn't have the framework either in maths or any other field they're specialized in to recognize those feats.
  • dwroberts 27 minutes ago
    Would be interesting to know what kind of preparatory work actually went into this - how long did it take to construct an input that produced a real result, and how much input did they get from actual mathematicians to guide refining it
  • alansaber 1 hour ago
    AI isn't going to supercharge science but I wouldn't be as dismissive as other posters here.
    • tombert 38 minutes ago
      I'm not a scientist but I like to LARP as one in my free time, and I have found ChatGPT/Claude extremely useful for research, and I'd say I'd go as far as to say it supercharged it for me.

      When I'm learning about a new subject, I'll ask Claude to give me five papers that are relevant to what I'm learning about. Often three of the papers are either irrelevant or kind of shit, but that leaves 2/5 of them that are actually useful. Then from those papers, I'll ask Claude to give me a "dependency graph" by recursing on the citations, and then I start bottom-up.

      This was game-changing for me. Reading advanced papers can be really hard for a variety of reasons, but one big one can simply be because you don't know the terminology and vernacular that the paper writers are using. Sometimes you can reasonably infer it from context, but sometimes I infer incorrectly, or simply have to skip over a section because I don't understand it. By working from the "lowest common denominator" of papers first, it generally makes the entire process easier.

      I was already doing this to some extent prior to LLMs, as in I would get to a spot I didn't really understand, jump to a relevant citation, and recurse until I got to an understanding, but that was kind of a pain in the ass, so having a nice pretty graph for me makes it considerably easier for me to read and understand more papers.

      • kingkongjaffa 29 minutes ago
        One heuristic I used during my masters degree research thesis was to look for the seminal people or papers in a field by using google scholar to find the most cited research papers and then reading everything else by that author / looking at the paper's references for others. You often only need to go back 3-4 papers to find some really seminal/foundational stuff.
        • tombert 25 minutes ago
          Yeah, that's actually how I discovered Leslie Lamport like ten years ago. I was looking for papers on distributed consensus, and it's hard not to come across Paxos when doing that. It turns out that he has oodles of really great papers across a lot of different cool things in computer science and I feel like I understand a lot more about this space because of it.

          It doesn't hurt that Lamport is exceptionally good at explaining things in plain language compared to a lot of other computer scientists.

    • vatsachak 1 hour ago
      I absolutely believe that AI will supercharge science.

      I do not believe it will replace humans.

      • unsupp0rted 41 minutes ago
        I absolutely believe that AI will supercharge science and replace humans.

        Why shouldn't it? Humans are poorly optimized for almost anything, and built on a substrate that's barely hanging together

        • stonogo 35 minutes ago
          Not like large language models, which only required tens of megawatts of power and use highly efficient monte carlo methods, eh
      • seydor 43 minutes ago
        replace, no. obsolete, yes
        • dvfjsdhgfv 32 minutes ago
          lol

          (That's the first time I use that expression on HN.)

    • OldGreenYodaGPT 1 hour ago
      Isn’t that a joke? It already has supercharged science
      • ks2048 25 minutes ago
        Since "supercharged science" is as ill-defined as AGI, ASI, etc., people will be able to debate it endlessly for no reason.
      • datsci_est_2015 56 minutes ago
        Where are the second order effects of this supercharging of science? Or has it not been enough time for those to propagate?
    • comboy 50 minutes ago
      Not only it supercharged science it supercharges scientist. Research on any narrow topic is a different world now. Agents can read 50 papers for you and tell you what's where. This was impossible with pure text search. Looking up non-trivial stuff and having complex things explained to you is also amazing. I mean they don't even have to be complex, but can be for adjacent field where these are basics for the other field but happen to be useful in yours. The list goes on. It's a hammer you need to watch your fingers, it's not good at cutting wood, but it's definitely worth having.
      • dvfjsdhgfv 23 minutes ago
        It's a very heavy hammer. I used it in the way you describe and after double-checking noticed some crucial details were missed and certain facts were subtly misrepresented.

        But I agree with you, especially in areas where they have a lot of training data, they can be very useful and save tons of time.

        • Karrot_Kream 10 minutes ago
          I don't think there's a substitute for reading the source material. You have to read the actual paper that's cited. You have to read the code that's being sourced/generated. But used as a reasoning search engine, it's a huge enabler. I mean so much of research literally is reasoning through piles of existing research. There's probably a large amount of good research (especially the kind that don't easily get grant funding) that can "easily" shake out through existing literature that humans just haven't been able to synthesize correctly.
    • renegade-otter 55 minutes ago
      It will notice things that humans may have missed. That said - it can only work off the body of work SOMEONE did in the past.
      • throw-the-towel 48 minutes ago
        > it can only work off the body of work SOMEONE did in the past.

        And so do humans. Gotta stand on these shoulders of giants.

      • bel8 45 minutes ago
        Can't the previous body of work be from AI too?
    • karmasimida 51 minutes ago
      To be strict, Math is not Science.

      But AI is supercharging Math like there is no tomorrow.

  • ks2048 12 minutes ago
    Timothy Gowers' tweet about this: "If you are a mathematician, then you may want to make sure you are sitting down before reading futher.".

    woah.

  • famouswaffles 41 minutes ago
    Another entry in a growing list of the last couple months (interestingly mostly Open AI):

    1. Erdos 1196, GPT-5.4 Pro - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/amateur-armed-wit...

    There are a couple of other Erdos wins, but this was the most impressive, prior to the thread in question. And it's completely unsupervised.

    Solution - https://chatgpt.com/share/69dd1c83-b164-8385-bf2e-8533e9baba...

    2. Single-minus gluon tree amplitudes are nonzero , GPT-5.2 https://openai.com/index/new-result-theoretical-physics/

    3. Frontier Math Open Problem, GPT-5.4 Pro and others - https://epoch.ai/frontiermath/open-problems/ramsey-hypergrap...

    4. GPT-5.5 Pro - https://gowers.wordpress.com/2026/05/08/a-recent-experience-...

    5. Claude's Cycles, Claude Opus 4.6 - https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/papers/claude-cyc...

  • Kye 8 minutes ago
    Is this something that can be made explainable to someone without any of the relevant background, or is this one of those things where all that background is needed to understand it? Because I have no idea what's going on here, but would like to.
  • phkahler 59 minutes ago
    I would have thought a triangular grid works better than a grid of squares. You get ~3n links vs ~2n for the square grid. Curious what the AI came up with.
    • comboy 57 minutes ago
      Yes, not providing visualization of the solution seems criminal.
      • red_admiral 11 minutes ago
        Unless it's a non-constructive proof.
      • kmeisthax 12 minutes ago
        Knowing OpenAI, the solution's probably being withheld as a trade secret, lest it fall victim to distillation attacks (i.e. exactly the same shit they did to the open Internet).
    • kilotaras 14 minutes ago
      Both 3n and 2n are linear, the broken conjecture is that you can't do better than linear.
  • taimurshasan 45 minutes ago
    I wonder how much this cost vs a Math Professor or a team of Math Professors.
    • Karrot_Kream 8 minutes ago
      Sadly math professors aren't very expensive. Academics are paid terrible wages. Until recently, tenure was the carrot at the end of a grueling education. But now that tenure positions are getting rarer (well, tenure positions aren't growing vs the number of aspiring academics is), they continue to be cheap highly educated labor.
    • forgot_old_user 38 minutes ago
      it will only get cheaper in the long run
      • aspenmartin 11 minutes ago
        40x cheaper per year if trends continue
      • dvfjsdhgfv 26 minutes ago
        for a sufficiently long definition of long
        • aspenmartin 11 minutes ago
          No for a very short definition of long, look at data on: how fast do prices decrease for a constant level of performance
  • solomatov 58 minutes ago
    How central is it in the discrete geometry? Could anyone with the knowledge in the field reply?
  • yusufozkan 1 hour ago
    "The proof came from a general-purpose reasoning model, not a system built specifically to solve math problems or this problem in particular, and represents an important milestone for the math and AI communities."
    • seydor 42 minutes ago
      all reasoning is .. well problem reasoning. restricting black-box AIs to specific human-defined domains because we believe that's better is such a human-ist thing to do.
    • Kwantuum 54 minutes ago
      I trust openAI's marketing team 100%
      • krackers 42 minutes ago
        It seems plausible given that people have been using off the shelf 5.5 xhigh to decent success with some erdos problems. There is likely still some scaffolding around it though (like parallel sampling or separate verifier step) since it's not clear if you can just "one shot" problems like this.
  • pizzao 41 minutes ago
    Can someone explain to me what is their "prompting-scaffolding" to make it work ?
    • yusufozkan 38 minutes ago
      "This is a general-purpose LLM. It wasn’t targeted at this problem or even at mathematics. Also, it’s not a scaffold. We have not pushed this model to the limit on open problems. Our focus is to get it out quickly so that everyone can use it for themselves." - Noam Brown (OpenAI reasoning researcher) on X
  • seydor 44 minutes ago
    can the AI please tell us what to do now that all knowledge work will become unemployment?
  • dadrian 58 minutes ago
    While the result is impressive, this blog post is extremely disappointing.

    - It does not show an example of the new best solution, nor explain why they couldn't show an example (e.g. if the proof was not constructive)

    - It does not even explain the previous best solution. The diagram of the rescaled unit grid doesn't indicate what the "points" are beyond the normal non-scaled unit grid. I have no idea what to take away from it.

    - It's description of the new proof just cites some terms of art with no effort made to actually explain the result.

    If this post were not on the OpenAI blog, I would assume it was slop. I understand advanced pure mathematics is complicated, but it is entirely possible to explain complicated topics to non-experts.

    • Al-Khwarizmi 44 minutes ago
      Indeed, it's a pity. While many advanced math problems are highly abstract or convoluted to explain to a layman audience, this one in particular is about points in a 2D plane and distances. A drawing would have been nice.
    • changoplatanero 36 minutes ago
      apparently the proof is not constructive in the sense of not giving an easy to compute recipe for generating a set of points that you can plot on a 2d plane
  • arsan87 21 minutes ago
    neato. can we do any thing with this new found knowledge or is this mathematical sports?

    can we please put these ground breaking AIs to work on actual problems humans have?

    • clarle 9 minutes ago
      People thought neural networks were just an interesting thought exercise a few decades ago and not for practical ML problems, and look what happened since then.
  • catigula 41 minutes ago
    Every time I interact even with OpenAI's pro model, I am forced to come to the conclusion that anything outside the domain of specific technical problems is almost completely hopeless outside of a simple enhanced search and summary engine.

    For example, these machines, if scaling intellect so fiercely that they are solving bespoke mathematics problems, should be able to generate mundane insights or unique conjectures far below the level of intellect required for highly advanced mathematics - and they simply do not.

    Ask a model to give you the rundown and theory on a specific pharmacological substance, for example. It will cite the textbook and meta-analyses it pulls, but be completely incapable of any bespoke thinking on the topic. A random person pursuing a bachelor's in chemistry can do this.

    Anything at all outside of the absolute facts, even the faintest conjecture, feels completely outside of their reach.

    • dvfjsdhgfv 29 minutes ago
      Yeah, I remember it was one of my biggest disappointments with LLMs.
  • empath75 1 hour ago
    Important note: this was not done with a special mathematics harness or specialized workflow.
    • dwroberts 22 minutes ago
      How/why should we know this, it does not explain the process in the text?
  • rohitsriram 26 minutes ago
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  • ShadowPulse4709 22 minutes ago
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  • xiaod 30 minutes ago
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  • OldGreenYodaGPT 1 hour ago
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  • buddhahastha 1 minute ago
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  • dist-epoch 1 hour ago
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    • embedding-shape 1 hour ago
      > It's not a new result, LLMs can't produce new results

      Who else disproved this longstanding conjecture before the model did so, since obviously it must have been in the training data since before?

    • ekjhgkejhgk 1 hour ago
      Your understanding of this technology is out of date, and getting out of date faster as time goes by.
    • throwaw12 1 hour ago
      Thanks for giving me a hope that there is a still place for human knowledge workers.
  • brcmthrowaway 39 minutes ago
    End times are approaching
  • bradleykingz 52 minutes ago
    ok. so what are the implications of for math
  • reactordev 57 minutes ago
    I dunno, I'm skeptical without proof. I've had the MAX+ plan for a while and I'm sorry, the quality between GPT vs Claude is night and day difference. Claude understands. GPT stumbles over every request I give it.
    • nathan_compton 35 minutes ago
      Weird thing to say about a report which literally has the attached mathematical proof.
      • reactordev 24 minutes ago
        Except its not a proof. It's an existential proof of what? Projecting points and loosing density? Nah, it's wrong. At least with Edros you could solve f(x) or not solve it (inf). You can not with this. All they did was balance a really fancy quadratic equation. The projection from C^f to R² doesn't demonstrate geometric injectivity, so nⱼ = |X| isn't established, and the bound collapses.
      • soupspaces 23 minutes ago
        I suppose you could prove it yourself and guide the machine to also do it :) \s?