13 comments

  • herbertl 1 minute ago
    It's mentioned in the article that this is a (really good!) painted version of The Torment of Saint Anthony, an engraving by Martin Schongauer.

    Michelangelo would go on to find his first patron, a Cardinal named Raffaele Riario, by forging a sculpture and artificially aging it (which, back then, was a conventional practice to demonstrate expertise and skill: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-a-forged-sculpture...)

    Dishonesty aside, both stories are reminders that there's a power to doing stuff with your own two hands (not genning it), as well as not to let today's emphasis on originality take away from using imitation/transcription to practice your craft: https://herbertlui.net/in-defense-of-copycats/

  • amarant 46 minutes ago
    Something about this painting is reminiscent of the way I(and I'm sure many others) would paint my comic-book heroes at around that age, albeit perhaps lacking some of Michelangelo's talents and skills.

    This painting makes me feel like the bible was pretty much a comic book to the adolescent Michelangelo, and I like that thought. He later went on to paint the ceiling of a huge temple dedicated to his equivalent of Charles Xavier.

    I bet that felt pretty cool for him =)

    • phyzix5761 38 minutes ago
      He hated painting the Sistine Chapel ceiling because he saw himself primarily as a sculptor. You can read some of the graphic language he used to describe his perspective of having to do it. Also, he was constantly in pain and would go temporarily blind from holding his head in certain positions for hours at a time.
    • scandox 10 minutes ago
      St Anthony was alive in the high middle ages. So not a biblical figure. Much closer to the artists own time.
      • smithkl42 1 minute ago
        There were two St. Anthony's. The one in this painting is the first St. Anthony. He was celebrated by Athanasius in a widely read biography and was famous for fighting off demons in the Egyptian desert. He lived from ~251-356 AD.
    • mylons 24 minutes ago
      my father made reading The Agony and The Ecstasy a requirement to go to Italy when I was a sophomore in high school. It's a thick tome, but a great read if you're a curious kid.

      as the others said Michelangelo hated doing that painting. He's a very tragic, albeit heroic to me, man. I'd recommend that book if you're at all fascinated by him.

    • Mouvelie 43 minutes ago
      Fun fact ! Michelangelo hated doing the ceiling thing.

      https://www.dutchfinepaintings.com/michelangelos-sistine-cha...

  • al_borland 1 hour ago
    Surely this isn’t the first thing he ever painted, but rather the earliest known work that survived?
    • andsoitis 1 hour ago
      Yes probably first known work. The salient point though is that he did this at 12.
      • saberience 14 minutes ago
        How can they possibly know that for sure? It seems massively unlikely. We don't have any really reliable records from that time.
        • zeroonetwothree 10 minutes ago
          It seems like we do know the year it was painted fairly reliably, but we don't know that it was Michelangelo specifically that painted it (the article exudes more confidence that I would give based on the inherent uncertainty of these identifications).
        • dfxm12 4 minutes ago
          The article/video only points to this being proven by research done by Giorgio Bonsanti. If you're curious, you'll have to investigate that angle.

          It is frustrating that the article is so coy about the evidence around the premise of the article! But, this website and the youtube video this article is based around both lean more towards pop than investigative.

    • dfxm12 8 minutes ago
      and also keep in mind, you probably make many sketches before putting brush to canvas...
  • stavros 1 hour ago
    Do they mean that he grabbed a paintbrush one day and painted this out of the blue? Or does "painting" here mean "specifically painted on a canvas" or whatever?
    • zdc1 1 hour ago
      I assume by "painting" they mean something akin to "published work" but it very well could just be his earliest "known work".
    • groundzeros2015 23 minutes ago
      No. He was an apprentice to a master which would have shown him tools and techniques.
    • lawn 47 minutes ago
      At this time kids spent their lives training under other masters. By this time he's been painting and assisting full time for many years already.

      Still impressive of course, but remember that it's not straightforward to compare how things are today with other time periods.

    • bookofjoe 1 hour ago
      >... it became "the only painting by Michelangelo located anywhere in the Americas, and also just one of four easel paintings attributed to him throughout his entire career," during most of which he disparaged oil painting itself.
      • stavros 1 hour ago
        How does this answer any part of my question?
        • andsoitis 57 minutes ago
          This is his first known work. The salient point though is that he did this at 12.
          • stavros 55 minutes ago
            Sure, though calling it "first" is misleading. "Earliest known" is the usual term for that.
            • andsoitis 53 minutes ago
              Sure. But it is also obvious that you cannot possibly know that he hadn't painted ANYTHING before that.

              All of that misses the forest for the trees, which is he did it at an incredibly young age!

              • anonymous908213 37 minutes ago
                It is less obvious than you think. Obvious to you and me, perhaps. But a significant portion of the population genuinely believes that you are born with the talent to just do this like it's nothing, or born with the talent to be a piano prodigy, etc, and as a result never bother to apply themselves, even though with the wealth of educational resources available today anyone[1] could make paintings of this quality if they were to put in the effort to learn. I think that article headlines that reinforce this popular misconception are rather damaging.

                [1] Given the level of pedantry on this site, I suppose I should say "almost anyone", since a small minority of people with severe disabilities may not be able to.

                • dismantlethesun 26 minutes ago
                  Cmon, even famous virtuosos still have to go through a period of being children without fine motor control.

                  I won’t argue about the obviousness as that’s a tarpit of comparing each others social circles, but let say it’s reasonable to assuming this wasn’t his first ever brush stroke to touch canvas.

  • tummler 8 minutes ago
    If my 12-year-old painted that, I would call a priest for an exorcism.
    • hackitup7 1 minute ago
      Seriously. Both because of the talent but also because wtf Mikey don't you want to draw a knight in shining armor or a cow or something.
  • owlninja 1 hour ago
    What a crazy coincidence... I had not been to the Kimbell art musesum that is only about 20 minutes away from me in many years. We had a family outing this weekend to go see the Torlonia Collection exhibit there and this painting was just sitting there in their permanent collection! I even got to listen to the guided tour group that happened to be at that painting as I was walking by.
    • chicagojoe 1 minute ago
      The Torlonia collection was recently in Chicago and had some truly stunning pieces. The Ostia relief was tucked away in a corner and I nearly missed it. The traveling exhibition is well worth seeing for anyone remotely interested in ancient history.
    • psbp 23 minutes ago
      The Caravaggio was incredible too.
  • ojciecczas 34 minutes ago
    One thing is to invent such a picture, the other is to copy it almost 1:1 and add some touch, which was the case.
  • worldsavior 1 hour ago
    Other than the drawing skill here, it's interesting why a kid thinks about demons attacking god. And why demons look like that for him.
    • mcgannon2007 1 hour ago
      It isn't an original work, but actually a painted version of a famous engraving by Martin Schongauer.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Temptation_of_St_Anthony_(...

      • BeaverGoose 42 minutes ago
        The engraving is much better too. Shame we don't appreciate Schongauer as much as Michelangelo.
        • MontyCarloHall 9 minutes ago
          Of course it's much better, Schongauer was ~25 when he did the engraving. Michelangelo was 12 when he copied it. Likewise, it goes without saying that Haydn's symphonies circa 1765 were much better than Mozart's from the same time, since Haydn was ~30 years old and Mozart was ~10 years old.

          The remarkable thing about the painting/symphonies isn't the absolute quality of the work, it's that they showcase the artists' intrinsic talents.

      • basch 1 hour ago
        I am by no means an expert art historian but I'm not sure I 100% follow the logic of their conclusion.

        "pentimenti, or correction marks, a common indication that “a painting is not a copy, but an original work created with artistic freedom.”"

        How often are they analyzing copies made by 12 year old. Is a 12 year old more likely to have made errors or drifted from the source during the process of the copy? Could the corrections be attempts to bring the painting closer to its source, because it wasnt close enough?

      • maxbaines 1 hour ago
        Thankyou
    • gjm11 1 hour ago
      It looks like the figure they're attacking is meant to be St Anthony, rather than God.
      • sejje 1 hour ago
        ... The painting is titled "The Torment of St Anthony," and the article didn't forget to include that detail.
    • razakel 1 hour ago
      As the article says, it's based on Schongauer's The Temptation of St. Anthony. There's even a version by Salvador Dali.
      • agos 51 minutes ago
        there's a cool background to Dali's Temptation of St. Anthony.

        In 1946, 11 surrealist painters were asked to submit a painting to be used in a film (Albert Lewin's "The Private Affairs of Bel Ami"). Among the contestants were Max Ernst (who won), Leonora Carrington, Dalì, Stanley Spencer, Dorothea Tanning. Among the judges was Marcel Duchamp. The painting is then shown in color - the only color scene in an otherwise black and white movie.

        I think the reason why they specifically wanted the temptation of Saint Anthony had to do with censorship, but sadly I can't remember the details

      • Oarch 52 minutes ago
        There are many versions, it's a popular theme. I saw 4 or 5 together in the Museum of Western Art in Tokyo recently.
    • dabluecaboose 1 hour ago
      At this point in his life, Michaelangelo was probably apprenticed to Ghirlandaio. This wasn't a freeform doodle, but likely something of a homework assignment. It was common for young artists to be given famous works to copy, or common religious scenes to remake.
    • lacunary 1 hour ago
      It's just a reflection of his education. Even today, many children are raised with religious education that includes stories of demons attacking people. Kids love scary stuff; monsters, battle, etc.
    • gwbas1c 1 hour ago
      It makes me wonder what his home environment was like where he could put such detail into a painting. Something like that isn't made in an afternoon or weekend; and it definitely requires parents to provide resources and moral support.
    • Maken 1 hour ago
      Demons look like that in Medieval and Renaissance paintings. "Red dude with horns" didn't become the standard depiction of demons until much later.
      • williamdclt 1 hour ago
        In modern representations, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find red-dude-with-horns. Seems like we shifted towards hot-dude-with-something-off (Lucifer series, Good Omens), when we do see red-dude-with-horns I feel like it's meant to be somewhat ironic/on-the-nose (south park, preacher).
        • dahart 33 minutes ago
          Hehe, not that that hard pressed. IMDB has a whole horned-demon category keyword: https://m.imdb.com/search/title/?keywords=horned-demon&explo.... And those results don’t even include South Park, nor Hellboy. If I Google image search for “Satan” I get nothing but red horned demons for pages.

          There have always been wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing stories about The Devil too, it’s just a separate category.

    • lotsofpulp 1 hour ago
      12 years old is pretty old for a kid. I remember trying to reason through my grandparents’ religious beliefs at or before age 9, and they had taught me about lots of different demons, gods, etc.
  • agumonkey 1 hour ago
    well the man would have loved to have a chat with H.P. Lovecraft it seems
    • soupfordummies 1 hour ago
      Yeah… was not really expecting that!
      • GuB-42 21 minutes ago
        I also didn't expect that, but then I realized that's the work of a teenage boy with a catholic education!

        Teenage boys love badass, edgy stuff. And what's badass and edgy in Catholicism? Demons! As for the art style, it is the style that was popular at the time.

        In a sense, it is not so different from today's kids drawing scenes inspired from their favorite comic. Of course, the painting here shows incredible talent, he is Michelangelo after all, but that doesn't make him less of a kid.

  • fwip 1 hour ago
    I'm inclined to agree with the commenter on the article.
    • mxfh 24 minutes ago
      I sure could find some experts for hire to drive up the price of my cultural artifact.

      Without anyone wanting to buy this and spend resources on that, finding claims to proof the contrary might be a quite futile task.

      The whole board of the Museum is non-experts. Nobody has any interest in devaluing that expense.

      In that era even attributing works definively to a single artist and not a school or workshop just feels a bit off.

      https://kimbellart.org/content/nuestro-kimbell

      absurdly well citing reddit comment on the provenance:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/museum/comments/x6k3mm/comment/in89...

  • LegitShady 1 hour ago
    Not his first painting. Nobody picks up a brush for the first time and paints like that. Not an original work either. Just a practice masterstudy, one of many many many he'd made up to that point I'm sure.
    • speff 1 hour ago
      It's impressive that he did it at 12, but like you said, he had years of focused practice under his belt before he did this one. Anyone can do this level of work - they just need to actually learn it. It doesn't require someone be born with talent.

      Articles like this contribute towards the gatekeeping feeling people get about the arts in my opinion.

    • frikskit 33 minutes ago
      You shouldn’t be getting downvoted. If people would read the article they’d see it’s not an original.
  • oldpersonintx 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • pstuart 1 hour ago
    I wonder how many Michelangelos we'd have today if we didn't have electronic distraction devices and only had old school tech for "entertainment"
    • TheCycoONE 1 hour ago
      Most of human history we didn't have electronic distraction devices and we have one Michelangelo; the answer is probably not as many as the question implies.
      • Lerc 1 minute ago
        I don't think such genius is inhibited so much by distraction as it is by lack of support.

        Either that or genius has coincidentally clustered around where the resources have been.

        The world could be so much more vibrant if everyone was supported and nurtured.

        In such a world, many might find much less need to distract themselves with trivialities.

    • adrianN 35 minutes ago
      Children today are expected to go to school and get a well rounded education. They don’t start specializing as apprentice to some master at an early age
    • Ekaros 1 hour ago
      I don't think there is that significant amount of artists that do not draw because entertainment. Artist communities online are doing pretty fine. There might not be enough money for all of them, but drawing is still popular enough hobby.
    • postalrat 31 minutes ago
      They are busy making other stuff. Its OK if you don't appreciate their work.
    • zppln 1 hour ago
      Also consider the tools and materials available today. I don't know much about Michelangelo, but I imagine people's opportunity for sheer iteration (due to availability of qualitys pens, pappers, ink etc) is magnitudes higher (and cheaper) today.
    • adventured 1 hour ago
      They're making art all around you. Some of them are extraordinarily famous.

      Movies, video games, music.

    • lotsofpulp 1 hour ago
      There are plenty, but the value of Michelangelo’s brand is in its’ scarcity.